[Accordlover]

OK!

So I know very little about how alignment machines work and all, but I brought the 2005 TL in for some warranty work ($1300!!! x_x) and part of it was that they replaced a control arm + bushings. Well when they aligned the car, the steeringwheel was crooked. So I called back the next day, and was informed that the alignment machine was broken yesterday and they have about 15 other customers with crooked steering wheels who received an alignment yesterday.

I went back the the dealership later that day (11am), and they got right to it. Told me it was fixed, and I was on my way. Well as soon as I was out of the parking lot and onto the access road I realized it was still off, but to the left side this time, not the right.

Then, I went back and asked for a tech to come drive with me. Tech drove the car, and I told him how I felt like it was off, and he claims it's as good as they can make it. I asked, well why can't you make it like it was before you took it apart? Then out of nowhere he tells me that I have a bent rear upper control arm. I asked why wasn't I informed so I could get it replaced?

He said that he didn't know why they didn't tell me. :dunno: But then he 'assured' me that this bend was so little that it only kept the alignment off by maybe a percent, if that.

What I still don't understand is how does the rear of the suspension have have anything to do with the front of the car? Shouldn't they be able to do a '2 wheel alignment' on the front and correct my steering wheel? It's not a drastic amount that it's off, and it doesn't pull at all; but I can tell that isn't like it was before (perfect), and that's what bothers me.

Acura tech says that looking at the top of the wheel where it's rather flat on the airbag cover isn't the way to tell if it's straight or not. He says he uses the lines on the A symbol and the speedometer to check the alignment on it. Which I also don't understand at all.

Should I just accept that the steering wheel is off to the left just a little bit? (2cm's?), or pursue this dealer to fix it for me? Or is the tech right; can he really not make it perfect?

Thanks...

 

[andysinnh]

A competent alignment tech will try several times to get the steering wheel to "settle" in the level/correct/straight position - you can see them rock the wheel both directions till it settles and wants to stay straight. They then typiclally will put a lock on the wheel to keep it straight - then go underneath and do the alignment adjustment. A shop that "rushes" will give you the results you're seeing. Even if you had bent EVERYTHING on the suspension, you could still get the wheel straight after an aligment. So my view is to require it be straight from them - or go to another shop and have it done, and bill the Acura dealer for the correction. If they're trying to do 15 alignments in a single day, then they're rushing too fast to get that done, and it doesn't surprise me that they're making small "mistakes" like that. A good alignment takes about an hour - including the time to set up the machine, true the instruements, straighten the wheel, take the readings, do the adjustments, recheck the readings, then do a thorough road test.

As far as a bent rear control arm causing an alignment issue - the can many times adjust the 4 wheel alignment to take a minor bend into account and you'll be good to go - and while it can have an impact on the front wheel position - a full alignment usually takes care of that.

andy

 

[Fredsvt]

2cm is way too far off.
I think Honda allows 5 degrees off center one way or the other.
The car needs to be aligned REAR first, then front.
If the tech didn't align the rear wheels at all, then the front will never be right as the steering wheel will reflect the thrust angle the car is going down the road.

 

[princess]

The machine that was used on mine took away most any tech error. You simply make the little lights turn green! It used cameras to line things up. It's really not very complicated.:dunno: My steering wheel was ever so slightly off BEFORE & with the alignment it made it dead center again.

How did the control arm get bent?:dunno: Was the car wrecked or something?

 

[Accordlover]

The machine that was used on mine took away most any tech error. You simply make the little lights turn green! It used cameras to line things up. It's really not very complicated.:dunno: My steering wheel was ever so slightly off BEFORE & with the alignment it made it dead center again.

How did the control arm get bent?:dunno: Was the car wrecked or something?

The rear of the car has been hit before, but it was just the bumper cover. I had a further discussion with my father and he remembers hitting a curb really hard with the back wheel. So maybe that is the culprit.

I'm thinking I need to go to Prince's dealership on my way to New Orleans in a week or so. The Oil life is at 40% right now, I suppose I could have the oil changed and let his dealer address the warranty issue! I'm rather serious too! This Acura dealer thinks I'm coo-coo. Ugh.:nuts:

I'll let you all know what happens...

 

[Fredsvt]

Understand, it's not just the machine that a tech is using. All the technology in the world is fine, but if the person doing the alignment isn't fully versed in the theory behind what they are doing, there is really no point.

Putting little lights on 'green' can mean "in spec", but not where a setting is preferred or should be to provide the best compromise between handling, tire wear and ride. A classic example is the rear end alignment settings on gen 7 Accords, there's acceptable and what it really should be. A world of difference in handling and wear. Same goes for front settings for pull/drift issues.

Centering the steering wheel sometimes does require a little fidgeting, as not all machines have the ability to show the operator where it will or should end up when the alignment is done.

It's been years since I've used a newer alignment rig, and I'm sure they have come a long way. Sometimes though guys with older equipment can do worlds better than the newest stuff out there.

 

[Osiris_x11]

Is the dealer McDavid or Sterling in ATX?

 

[Accordlover]

Is the dealer McDavid or Sterling in ATX?

After a horrific sterling experience, David McDavid. I'm happy with everything about them but this.

 

[Osiris_x11]

I've had many alignments done by McDavid over the years (even after collision repair-work w/ screwed up suspension components), all within stock spec'. Not that I particularly like them (the dealership service-center), but they've been competent in the past.

If you need an indie' alignment/suspension shop to make it perfect for ~$40, check-out "Hai's Alignment" off Lamar. He can align anything/everything. . .

G'luck!

 

[Accordlover]

I've had many alignments done by McDavid over the years (even after collision repair-work w/ screwed up suspension components), all within stock spec'. Not that I particularly like them (the dealership service-center), but they've been competent in the past.

If you need an indie' alignment/suspension shop to make it perfect for ~$40, check-out "Hai's Alignment" off Lamar. He can align anything/everything. . .

G'luck!

We use David McDavid for warranty work and if its there when it needs a service then they will do it. But other than that, I have been taking the TL to Honda dealers for maintenance as it costs considerably less.

You don't get loaners with honda or fast free rides and pickup, but thankfully I go to school across the street from the honda dealer. So it's a drop and walk situation.:thmsup:

I'll check out Hal soon. He can help us get the 96 accord aligned up when my mom brings it here from New Orleans in June.

 

[Osiris_x11]

Yea, McDavid has nice cold-juices, donuts & cookies, etc'...

Though, I generally got rental-vintage Chrysler loaners from them. Made me furious, not because I'm an elitist or 'special'. But, because these moving tin-buckets of bolts brought to my attention how horrible many domestics have become over the years. . .

(I think only warranty-work and/or maint'/service within the manufacturer's warranty gets Acura loaners, whereas 'other' maint'/service/repair work outside XXmonths/YY,YYYYmiles gets their in-house vehicle-rental du'jour. . .)

I'll check out Hal soon...

Hai...

(as-in, "hi!!!")

 

[princess]

As already stated, you have to have the back correct to get the front right. So they tech messed up when they didn't tell you about the rear piece that it needs. They should not have even done the front before getting approval to replace the bad part. Shame on them!!

From what I understand the McDavid dealer here has a terrible reputation. I haven't been over there.

 

[Accordlover]

Yea, McDavid has nice cold-juices, donuts & cookies, etc'...

Though, I generally got rental-vintage Chrysler loaners from them. Made me furious, not because I'm an elitist or 'special'. But, because these moving tin-buckets of bolts brought to my attention how horrible many domestics have become over the years. . .

(I think only warranty-work and/or maint'/service within the manufacturer's warranty gets Acura loaners, whereas 'other' maint'/service/repair work outside XXmonths/YY,YYYYmiles gets their in-house vehicle-rental du'jour. . .)

Hai...

(as-in, "hi!!!")

My bad with the name.

They offered me a TSX, RDX or TL Loaner. But I'm not 21 so I can't have one. It says Acura loaners are reserved for warranty work and major services/maint on a sign in the drive at their dealership. Their concierge driver is a really nice guy! He was prompt and got me around for the day no questions asked.:thmsup:

 

[Accordlover]

As already stated, you have to have the back correct to get the front right. So they tech messed up when they didn't tell you about the rear piece that it needs. They should not have even done the front before getting approval to replace the bad part. Shame on them!!

From what I understand the McDavid dealer here has a terrible reputation. I haven't been over there.

Sadly Austin only has two dealers to choose from. There aren't any other for 100+ miles I'm rather sure. (I live 70 miles from that one and its the closest!)

I drove the TL more and I really can't detect the misalignment anymore. It drives straight, no pull, and the wheel appears to be ok. It's not servere or anything.

I still have 12mo/11k to figure out if I think it's right or now. But I may be SOL until I replace that rear upper control arm. :yes:

 

[RTexasF]

Is it NORMAL to have the wheel off slightly? NO! I have gone back as many as six times until I was satisfied. That was with Mc David and others. Do not let them tell you that's the best they can do. INSIST that it is adjusted to your happy zone. We had an Acura prior to my Honda purchase. Make them get it to your satisfaction.

Back in my stupid days I paid Firestone for an allignment. The wheel was never centered. After multiple attempts the allignment guy said "that's the best i can do".
Long story short......Firestone refunded me every cent after I took the car elsewhere and a more knowledgable person set the allignment and the wheel correctly.
Don't EVER give up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Accordlover]

Is it NORMAL to have the wheel off slightly? NO! I have gone back as many as six times until I was satisfied. That was with Mc David and others. Do not let them tell you that's the best they can do. INSIST that it is adjusted to your happy zone. We had an Acura prior to my Honda purchase. Make them get it to your satisfaction.

Back in my stupid days I paid Firestone for an allignment. The wheel was never centered. After multiple attempts the allignment guy said "that's the best i can do".
Long story short......Firestone refunded me every cent after I took the car elsewhere and a more knowledgable person set the allignment and the wheel correctly.
Don't EVER give up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would keep going back but with school and the dealer being 70 miles from my house, these trips are getting costly.

I'm at the point where I will just go to Hai's shop that Osiris recommends and have them do it. Nothing has come out of pocket yet, it's all been warranty work.

 

[Osiris_x11]

It says Acura loaners are reserved for warranty work and major services/maint on a sign in the drive at their dealership.

Grrr... I guess $1,600+ 6yr/90k service (ie. timing-belt/water-pump) & $2,400+ clutch-job aren't "major services/maint" in their eyes!

(of which each was done 2x over the years; total maint'/service/repairs done over time totaling ~$15k @ McDavid... grrr again!)

Their concierge driver is a really nice guy! He was prompt and got me around for the day no questions asked.:thmsup:

You're right-on w/ that, he got me around to & fro' while I was deciding what to do (vehicle was already towed to McDavid's service-center). . .

From what I understand the McDavid dealer here has a terrible reputation. I haven't been over there.

Well, it's kinda/sorta like they expect you, the consumer, to walk-in w/ a blank check or open pocketbook, so to speak.

I haven't had any complaints w/ any of the work I've had done w/ them ever (in terms of quality), but the costs were unfair (in my own opinion) & they nickel/dime each & everything obnoxiously to make their cream. If you're not well-versed in anything auto-related, they potentially can ream you good. Much more-so than other dealers I've encountered or heard of.

What the heck, I might as well say... I've been over-billed on numerous occasions, I've been billed for services/work not done, I've been lied to regarding what upcoming maint'/service I need, I've been lied to regarding why something failed/broke, and so on & so forth. . .

But, that's just the thing about most people here in the Greater Austin area, they don't object nor mind paying at/near MSRP for vehicles nor the inflated service costs & price-gouging in repairs. It defies all logic. . .

I have a thick manila folder full of invoices/bills & service-writer paperwork w/ my added notations for future reference when I chose to send the GM a copy w/ a cover-letter from my attorney. I haven't been pushed over the threshold just yet, but the way they operate, it'll inevitably happen. . .

(I can't comment on the Dallas-area McDavid, though...)


Princess, now you can see why I'm so smitten to know Prince is capable of & willing to work on one of my vehicles! :blush: